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AMABREEZE

Articles Posted: 21  Links Seeded: 2
Member Since: 2/2010  Last Seen: 4/20/2012

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(Poll) Arizona border security... Is it really important or Not... ?

Sun Jul 4, 2010 6:21 PM EDT
politics, immigration, national-security, laws-enforcement
By amabreeze

Live Poll

Do you believe that citizens have the right to be Protected by Government agencies by using all available means to lessen the chance of being a victim of a crime ?

View Results
  • 104541
    Yes
    88%
  • 104542
    No
    7%
  • 104543
    Other,,, You could put your choice in comments.
    5%

VoteTotal Votes: 97

Live Poll

Do you really care what Law enforcement agency from the Border Patrol down to the Local Police enforcing any Law which would make you safer ?

View Results
  • 104544
    No
    71%
  • 104545
    Yes
    25%
  • 104546
    Other...You could lput your choice in comments.
    4%

VoteTotal Votes: 97

Live Poll

Do you think it is Important for the USA to gain more control of our southern border with Mexico even though there are claims that it will only have a minimal effect of reducing illegal trafficking ?

View Results
  • 104547
    Yes
    90%
  • 104548
    No
    6%
  • 104549
    Other... You could your choice in comments.
    4%

VoteTotal Votes: 114

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Back in 70's when the Republican right was supporting the push for the states to re institute Capital Punishment. Many opponent's were saying that Innocent people would be killed. Supporters came back and said: The chances of a innocent person being executed under the Death penalty, the percentage rate would be very low.

When Governor George Ryan, a Republican, came into office in Illinois in 1999. Up to the year 2000 there had been 12 death row inmates executed since1977 when Capital punishment became law in the state. But he was forced to release 13 death row inmates based on new evidence. And, the famous case of Anthony Porter who was on death row for 15 yrs. Students of journalism at Northwestern University collected compelling evidence which lead to him being declared innocent. Governor Ryan had said at this point that: We have freed more people than we have put to death under our system and said There is a flaw in the system, then imposed a moratorium on the Death Penalty. So the statement that the percentage rate would be very low of the wrongly accused being put to death turn out to a very high percentage, at this time it would be over 50 %. More importantly, if you were one of these innocent inmates on death row waiting to be executed, to You personally The Death penalty would be 100% wrong. Also, Governor Ryan told Texas Governor George W. Bush, a Republican, that he should put a moratorium, in his state, on the Death Penalty because of the problems it had. Mr. Bush refused.

An article in the Huffington Post on 6/25/10 which began with: Gov. Jan Brewer said Friday that most illegal immigrants entering Arizona are being used to transport drugs across the border an assertion that critics slammed as an exaggeration and racist. A T.J. Bonner, president of the union of that represent border agents said, Some illegal border crossers carry drugs but most don't. You have to be glad neither side came up with a percentage rate because surely both sides would give an incorrect one.

Also "Unless Gov. Brewer can provide hard data to substantiate her claim that most undocumented people crossing into Arizona are 'drug mules' she must retract such a outrageous statement. said Oscar Martinez.

There are claims that Ms. Brewer is playing politics with this situation. But these claims of racism, profiling, Equal protection under the law, couldn't this be considered political rhetoric.

Zero tolerance for Drugs. Remember Zero for drug users... But..For Drug traffickers there is a 5%, 10%, 20% or maybe a 30% tolerance standard. As long as the majority of illegal immigrants coming across the border and are honestly looking for work, which the country is in a short supply of right now, it would be alright for some illegal traffickers to filter through. Is that what the opponents to better border security are trying to say ? Why isn't there a Zero tolerance for Drug Dealers, it would definitely facilitate the Zero tolerance goal for Drug usage.

The United States of America from 1776 to 1783, Colonialists, citizens soldiers, a rag appareled, sometimes armed with just shovels, picks and pitch forks, a bunch of misfits, Fought against the Most powerful Military force in the World at the time, England. Poorly supplied, lost more battles than they had won And defeated the British under the command of General Washington. The country suffered through a Civil War and many other wars inside it's borders. Had the streets of it's cities controlled by the Mobs during Prohibition. Economic disaster of the Great Depression which lasted for over a decade. and much more. At present, in the Great Recession. But it is the only Super Power left and still has the greatest economy of the World.

When you hear these complaints from Hispanic groups about the allowing illegal immigrants to come north over the border so they can reunite with their families. There never seems to be any talk about them going south to reunite with them and somehow helping their people and country achieve the greatness that it could obtain, more like the USA. Or is this considered a racist remark ?

Both sides made claims that at least some illegal traffickers come across the southern border of the US. Which does effect the crime rate epically in border states. There are reports that have come out that Home invasions and kidnappings for ransom and other crimes have risen in Arizona. There are Democrats and others that have argued that the rise would only be at a low percentage rate. But...... if you were a victim of one these crimes wouldn't you be 100% wronged. Equal protection under the Law is always associated with discrimination but do you have the right to more Equal protection from crimes by securing the border ? And should all available means be used help to accomplish this task ? Wouldn't this make the whole country safer ?

The Arizona Law is now considered to be constitutionally sound by most of the law experts from the Left and from the Right. Except for some provisions like the enforcement power issue, giving local police officers the authority to ask people for proof of citizenship. Not saying that proving citizenship would make you safer. Yet.. If anyone could make you safer by enforcing any Law and to help accomplish this , whether it would be by the Border Patrol, the FBI, State Troopers, County Sheriffs, Local Police, deputized citizens or any other agency, even if it was your next door neighbor, would you really care who it was ? The (Poll) on the right side of this article is asking this question.

Mainly Republicans were supporting the continuance of executions under the Death Penalty even though they were aware that it was flawed...They were Wrong. Mainly Democrats are Not supporting increased border security, some saying it could never be accomplished,,, and They are Wrong Also. In both cases their approaches raise the risk that more innocent people will be harmed, falsely imprisoned and in some cases suffer death. And..It doesn't matter how Small the percentage rate is....

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  • Public Discussion (34)
fstwarrior

Actually, for once, a good article about the enforcement of immigration laws. Not emotional, not irrational - just showing you both sides so you can make up your own mind.

Thanks.

  • 7 votes
Reply#1 - Sun Jul 4, 2010 6:48 PM EDT
JoMan

Yes, I do agree that enforcement is good to solve the immigration problem. I would like to remind people that there is a lot more involved in enforcement than just "force." If officials, business and citizens are not willing to step forward and blow the whistle on situations with illegal aliens, this problem will not be solved. At least half the problem is on this side of the border and lies with the support of American citizens.

  • 3 votes
Reply#2 - Sun Jul 4, 2010 7:00 PM EDT
Newbigtech

Mexico foiled an attempt by Hezbollah to establish a network in South America,

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CCYQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.haaretz.com%2Fnews%2Fdiplomacy-defense%2Fmexico-thwarts-hezbollah-bid-to-set-up-south-american-network-1.300360&ei=pn8zTMXyDcnsngeSrLGiDw&usg=AFQjCNFjFnHneogYiCy7Z7vNXMKE4WON-Q

    #2.1 - Tue Jul 6, 2010 3:26 PM EDT
    Reply
    Zanyzazu

    As an Arizona resident...I say no....we have quite a few Mexicans in Phoenix...but actually not a lot here in the rest of the state....It is political....and once the election is over...the tide will turn.

    By making a public out cry and phoney issue they are distracting the country from bringing up the issues of the stealing of millions.....by Joe Arpia....The bad judgements of Brewer...and it is a real hard push I hope fails miserably to get Mc Cain re elected....He is useless, and old and miserable and is fighting for re-election so he can be a fly in Obama's ointment.........

    The old bag of crap is now throwing Brewer under the bus to make himself popular to the Mexican population.....he is saying the opposite of what he said before.....stupid man.

    We use him as a weather vein.......to see which way the wind is blowing.

    • 3 votes
    Reply#3 - Sun Jul 4, 2010 7:04 PM EDT
    JoMan

    Thanks for this information. As someone living there you should know. Sounds like you are stuck in the middle of politician's games. I saw McCain as a sell out years ago, he never got my vote.

    • 1 vote
    #3.1 - Sun Jul 4, 2010 7:26 PM EDT
    Petemoss

    I would agree with you on Mcain but I also live In AZ and don't how can you say we don't have a lot of mexican's in this state. I live in Tucson and have driven around a lot of area's and there is a huge population IN our state, and the other 50. Ever artical you read it shows proof of the amount with in our state.

    Between Tucson and Phoenix is the largest crossing area so were do you belive they are going. I will say that we do not have a large problem with crime here in Tucson like you do in Phonex but there are a lot of iligals working in Tucson, where ever there are day work sites they are all Hispanic now do I know if the all leagal no but there are a lot.

    Even if you do not like Brewer In my opion at least she is one gov that is trying to do something about the border and is standing up to Obama. I don't belive with all of the crime that is going on on the border people are still turning a blind eye to it. Personally I am fed up with it and I belive until we get a handle on it the border it should be completly closed.

    I am a strong beliver in imigration but people keep leaving out the one factor that im sick of and that is come to this county leagal. not through our open bordrer for a free ride. in my life time i have had many differnet friends that were not born in this country but came here and work hard and become very successful LEAGAL AMERICANS. So why should we give those who broke a FEDRAL Law just get a free pass and a slap on the wrist. Here's an Idea if they want to fast track than join the military we are in 2 wars, and fight for this county not smuggle people and drugs and guns in here.

    • 8 votes
    #3.2 - Sun Jul 4, 2010 11:23 PM EDT
    Newbigtech

    I live outside Phoenix and travel the Valley. Still plenty of illegals in Fountain Hills, Scottsdale, and Cave creek, also on the corners waiting for work in ElMirage, Surprise and Wickenburg.

    I believe that if we secure the border with fences where it is phesable, then use our border patrol where we know we can't have fences makes sense.

    What worry's me are the snipers from the drug Cartels that are picking off police in border towns. It is almost an act of war. Why are we allowing our citizens to now be shot dead?

    Won't get fooled again in 2010. Vote out ALL incumbents!

      #3.3 - Mon Jul 5, 2010 4:00 PM EDT
      SgtNickAngel

      Petemoss,

      Is English your second or third language? My illegal Mexican maid has a better command of the English language. The problem with the U.S. isn't illegal aliens; the problem is the low IQ of a majority of the U.S. citizens. Stupidity will cause the collapse of America; not immigration.

      • 1 vote
      #3.4 - Mon Jul 5, 2010 5:48 PM EDT
      SgtNickAngel

      Newbigtech,

      What worry's me are the snipers from the drug Cartels that are picking off police in border towns. It is almost an act of war. Why are we allowing our citizens to now be shot dead?

      ----------------------------------------

      Can you cite a source that shows what you claim has actually happened?

      • 1 vote
      #3.5 - Mon Jul 5, 2010 6:15 PM EDT
      Newbigtech

      3 headless bodies found in car in Mexico

      (AP) – 1 hour ago

      CULIACAN, Mexico — Police have found the decapitated bodies of three men inside a burned-out car in the drug gang-plagued Mexican state of Sinaloa. The heads had been put on the vehicle's hood.

      The Sinaloa state attorney general's office says one of the burned bodies was in the driver's seat, another in the back seat and the third was in the trunk.

      Investigators found the car Monday in the city of Angostura, near the Pacific coast.

      The office's statement provided no information on possible suspects or the motive for the killings.

      Sinaloa has long been considered the home state of many of Mexico's most powerful drug lords.

      http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gMi5B2USfJStXxfqgWWr2xjRYpOgD9GP7OI00

      • 1 vote
      #3.6 - Mon Jul 5, 2010 10:10 PM EDT
      Newbigtech

      Police Chief Jeff Kirkham of the border town Nogales, Arizona, told Tucson Channel 9 (ABC) news that he has received threats that the Mexican drug cartels will start using snipers to target on- and off-duty police officers from across the border.

        #3.7 - Mon Jul 5, 2010 10:21 PM EDT
        amabreeze

        Your Comment is a Great Enlightenment and It's a shocker. Why can't this Police Chief Jeff Kirkman go on National TV or has he already been on and I missed it. You said he was on a local Channel 9 (ABC) from Tucson. All the Police officers that I've seen interviewed on National News were complaining the Arizona Law. But I have never heard much from the other side of the story. Why don't you 'Newbigtech' since you have so much information about this situation, write an Article on the subject and keep us informed. I'm sure there are many people would like to know what's really going in Arizona and other states on the border. Most of us are almost completely in the Dark. You could titled the article something like ' Did you know that US Police Officers are getting shot at and murdered by Drug Cartels from across the Mexican Border ? or something to that effect. Put a Poll or 2 on it and I'm sure you would get several hits... Maybe the National press doesn't want to report it Much because they are generally opposed to the Arizona Law ? Let me know what's going on and Thanks for the Great Information...

          #3.8 - Mon Jul 5, 2010 11:47 PM EDT
          Reply
          David Noah

          I voted no on your first two questions. I believe that it is the responsibilty of our law enforcement to enforce our laws but not by any means neccesary. They have rules they must obey to protect civil rights. Absolute power corrupts absolutly.

          Government agencies by using all available means to lessen

          On your third question I voted yes. Do you leave your car unlocked so any one can get into it? Do you leave your house unlocked?

          The idea that our borders can't be secured is a B.S. excuse. Three hikers can't even go into Iran without getting cought. Two reporters cant enter North Korea without getting caught and former President Clinton Flies over there to get them released, but we cant secure our borders? So we are in in Iraq and Afghanistan trying to secure those countries and their borders from Terrorists groups and trying to rebuild their Nations but we cant be bothered with our own borders and Nation? So Iran and North Korea and most of the other countries in this World can do what we can't. That doesnt sound very "Yes we Can"ish to me...

          All it will take is one Terrorist to Bomb Times Square on a Saturday night and show that they came through the U.s. Mexico Border then all the Arguments about securing our borders will stop. Wasnt it just proven that one of the Drug Cartels in Mexico has links with Hezbolla? ah yes I remember hearing about that somewhere...

          http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/79021

          Mexican drug cartels, Hezbollah (Party of God) and other Islamic terrorist groups are joining forces in Mexico. Hezbollah is synonymous with terror, suicide bombings, kidnappings and beheadings. No wonder the criminal organizations in Mexico seem to have adopted many Middle Eastern terrorist tactics with kidnappings and beheadings happening throughout Mexico.

          According to authorities global Islamic terrorist have moved into Mexico and other Latin American countries to open the door for Mexican cartels to have excess to Afghanistan cocaine at bargain basement prices, those profits from those sales are being passed on to Hezbollah and other terrorist organizations worldwide to attack the states from within.

          http://www.infowars.com/us-government-hamas-hezbollah-collaborating-with-mexican-drug-cartels/

          According to a U.S. government intelligence report obtained by Proceso, Hamas, Hezbollah and other radical Islamic groups have become associates of the Mexican drug trafficking cartels: they are furnishing them weapons and helping them to distribute drugs in Europe and the Middle East. Ahead of time, DEA and Justice Department officials told this weekly that “in coming days” they will conduct an operation in the border area shared by Brazil, Argentina and Paraguay – where the radical Islamic groups have settled – that will show their ties with the Mexican drug traffickers.

          Washington – Islamic terrorist groups are selling arms to Mexican drug trafficking cartels and collaborating with them in order to distribute narcotics in Europe and the Middle East.

          This is one of the conclusions in the report titled “Accomplishments, Fiscal Year 2007,” done by the National Drug Intelligence Center (NDIC), an agency of the U.S. Department of Justice.

          • 5 votes
          Reply#4 - Sun Jul 4, 2010 7:11 PM EDT
          Kshark

          Ok I tried to read this and dissect it to render an analytical answer, but it is kind of all over the place a bit.

          You are bringing in all different subject matters to make a point about border security.

          It probably would have been better to really stick to the main topic as started in your title there. You tried, which is cool.

          • 3 votes
          Reply#5 - Sun Jul 4, 2010 7:30 PM EDT
          amabreeze

          It's all over the place... Your probably right, I might have put to much material in this writing but I'm still hoping that everyone got some of the ideas and views which would get them to think about. I will keep your criticism in mind when I write my next article. Thanks...for you comment

            #5.1 - Mon Jul 5, 2010 7:38 PM EDT
            sgteseusmc

            i live 14 miles from the border. no, sir, no snipers. scare tactics on your part? maybe. the 911 terrorists did not inflitrate the US through Mexico. They walked right in though Canada. So do we close down that border too. or can't we afford to piss off Canada? I agree that there are a lot, thousands of people crossing the border without legal documents, but terrorists? haven't read or heard anything in the news. Not even from bloggers. I must commend the border patrol on this issue. I do not know what they are doing to keep them out, but I hope they continue being vigil so as not to allow not even one terrorist, legal or illegal.

              #5.2 - Tue Jul 6, 2010 2:57 PM EDT
              Reply
              theforce5

              The safety of the border is important for National Security, the people with subversive ideas and followers of non friendly countries are entering by the south border and go mostly to Chicago, and others parts of the land where they know they can get protection from the law.

              • 6 votes
              Reply#6 - Sun Jul 4, 2010 7:46 PM EDT
              ArizonaBill

              Not only is it necessary to secure and seal the border for safety reasons, if not sealed the drug's and illegals will just continue to flow across daily with or with out any immigration reform just as they do now.

              And yes the border can easily be secured and sealed, if the government wants too. But it is becoming horribly clear to many citizens that some in our goverment seem to not want the flow of drug's and drug money stopped.

              • 6 votes
              Reply#7 - Sun Jul 4, 2010 8:49 PM EDT
              Bigref

              This is an idiotic article. It fails basic syllogistic logic. You argue that, since one Republican was wrong about the death penalty enforcement then all Republicans are wrong about immigration enforcement. Fallacious argument and infantile conclusion. By this logic, since many Democrats (such as Robert Byrd) voted against The Civil Rights Act of 1964 and they were wrong, Democrats should be prohibited from voting on...say, bicycles.

              • 1 vote
              Reply#8 - Mon Jul 5, 2010 1:17 AM EDT
              amabreeze

              Its' about many things. One thing it is trying to relate to is the faults of percentages rates and what they mean to different people. Everybody sees an article diferently, with a wide variety of opinons and I welcome yours. Thank you. You should try to write an article disputing or favoring the content, send it to me and I will definitely read it...

                #8.1 - Mon Jul 5, 2010 6:15 PM EDT
                Reply
                The Spirit

                Now that the law has actually taken effect, I expect every left-wing loon who owns a video camera to DELIBERATELY break traffic laws in Arizona to get pulled over so they can "document" racial profiling. Hope the "citizen journalists" pffft, don't kill someone.

                • 2 votes
                Reply#9 - Mon Jul 5, 2010 2:39 AM EDT
                SgtNickAngel

                The Spirit wrote:

                Now that the law has actually taken effect, I expect every left-wing loon who owns a video camera to DELIBERATELY break traffic laws in Arizona to get pulled over so they can "document" racial profiling. Hope the "citizen journalists" pffft, don't kill someone.

                --------------------------------

                What a brilliant plan! Liberals will risk paying heavy fines and insurance rate increases to prove that Arizona has passed a bad law. Wow... Faux News has really taken hold of your "brain."

                • 1 vote
                #9.1 - Mon Jul 5, 2010 5:54 PM EDT
                Reply
                Glo-850104

                Are we really having a discussion to determine if ILLEGAL immigrants are ILLEGAL and who should enforce the law that states it's ILLEGAL to be in the country ILLEGALLY?

                  Reply#10 - Mon Jul 5, 2010 5:57 AM EDT
                  Free Mason-1490678Deleted
                  ma91744-1401618

                  Immigration laws should be enforced across the board. I wonder how long it will be before other countries start kicking out Americans. "You look like an American. Get out."

                    Reply#12 - Mon Jul 5, 2010 12:20 PM EDT
                    Night-1021999

                    It happen all the time ,it all so seem to me that in the USA thy enforce the Immigration laws if your are not a Mexican.

                    If you are a Canadian a Ozzy or from a European country you get deported in a hart beat.

                    All so it seem to me thee same people well show up for Court and be on time for the plane ride or bus ride out of this country , not so for the ILLEGAL CRIMINAL from South of the border who never bother showing up for Court ,never mind showing up for the bus trip back to his home country.

                    So do US citizen get booted out of other country ALL THE TIME just ask the RCMP.

                      #12.1 - Mon Jul 5, 2010 1:11 PM EDT
                      SgtNickAngel

                      Night,

                      My illegal Mexican maid has a better grasp of the English language than what is contained in your post. I guess that a 3rd grade education isn't what it used to be. With the IQ of the American populace dropping precipitously; we need to welcome the illegals in the hope that they will raise the education level of the U.S. as a whole.

                      • 1 vote
                      #12.2 - Mon Jul 5, 2010 6:00 PM EDT
                      Reply
                      SgtNickAngel

                      If Governor Brewer prosecuted businesses/corporations for hiring undocumented aliens; there would be a severe decrease in the number of immigrants attempting to make Arizona their home. No jobs = no money; and no incentive to move to Arizona. It's actually quite simple.

                      • 1 vote
                      Reply#13 - Mon Jul 5, 2010 6:10 PM EDT
                      amabreeze

                      Response to: Newbigtech... 6th comment down from the top. Is He saying that: The Cartels in Mexico are shooting Police Officers that are in the USA.. if it's true, I wasn't aware of it and I would have to believe many Americans didn't know it either. I watch the news all the time. Why isn't this a Big Story on National News, ??? I think it should be, don't you ?

                        Reply#14 - Mon Jul 5, 2010 8:24 PM EDT
                        SgtNickAngel

                        WordFlow amabreeze,

                        The reason the press has not reported on the Mexican snipers killing U.S. border officials is because it never happened!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                        • 1 vote
                        #14.1 - Tue Jul 6, 2010 1:43 AM EDT
                        Reply
                        PhxAZMom

                        Good post, and polls.

                        I've lived in Arizona 35 years. I will NEVER vote for McCain or Kyl, or Shaddeg, ever again. HUGE mistake.... Brewer is another disgrace to our State with political greed motivating her ridiculous actions. Our budget ... laughable to say budget... but our budget is spiraling out of control. I think Brewer should consider what our economy would be like without those "illegals" spending their money on goods and services in our state. The amount of money is staggering, and I must admit I was a bit surprised by it.

                        In fact, illegal immigrants contributed $428 billion dollars to the nation's $13.6 trillion gross domestic product in 2006. One indicator as to how many illegal immigrants pay income tax is the 9 million W-2 forms with mismatched names and Social Security numbers. The IRS said those forms reported about $53 billion in wages, and about three-fourths of that, or $40 billion, had taxes withheld. That money helps fund legal workers who are eligible for retirement, or claiming SSI etc. Experts attribute these payments to the forged documents that illegal immigrants purchase in order to find work. An estimated $9 billion is collected each year with no future benefit-rights assigned. Moral outrage is understandable when laws are not enforced, but let us not confuse hypocrisy with an economic burden.

                        You cant 'fix' immigration. Our representatives in Washington D.C., for the past century never implemented anything that made a difference, and never enforced anything that did a thing to prevent the millions who are here illegally. If EITHER SIDE REALLY wanted to protect Americans they would have taken immediate action 9/12/2001. We could have built a 30 foot wall from California to Florida in the 9 years that have been wasted pointing fingers at each other.

                        We have bigger issues at hand right now that REQUIRE immediate attention. Like the Unemployment extension to help the 2 million people going without a dime of income. The Gulf coast crisis and the PEOPLE who NEED ALL AMERICANS TO RALLY on their behalf and keep BP, and elected officials addressing the IMMEDIATE NEEDS every single day until that damn well is finally capped off for good.

                        Illegal immigration is a serious issue, but let's stop acting like it suddenly needs to be on the top of the TO DO list when it's clearly politically motivated.

                        • 1 vote
                        Reply#15 - Tue Jul 6, 2010 11:42 AM EDT
                        ricky m

                        Im from california lived there 52 yrs I watch it chang signs in english and spanish both in not saying thats bad thing. theirs just to many people in california Nothing was being done At least Aarizona has taken a step fight it

                          Reply#16 - Tue Jul 6, 2010 12:49 PM EDT
                          Borncorn

                          In Nebraska, the right wingnuts brought in illegals to break the meat packing unions in the 70's. Now they're all angry that they stayed. Why in the world should I listen to them now?

                            Reply#17 - Tue Jul 6, 2010 1:30 PM EDT
                            Knits_Seitnap

                            Hey........America!!! Wake the hell up!!!!!!!!! Thank you ARIZONA..........I don't want Taliban & Al Qaeda in Minnesota.........stop 'em cold down there!!!!!!!!!!!!

                              Reply#18 - Tue Jul 6, 2010 3:53 PM EDT
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